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| Started By | Thread Subject | Replies | Last Post | ||
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| giannag | Benveniste | 0 | Feb 8 2007, 7:23 PM EST by giannag | ||
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Thread started: Feb 8 2007, 7:23 PM EST
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I very much enjoyed Benveniste’s essay on the subjectivity of language. I also agreed with much of what she said—how “I” and “you” are, in a way, the basis of language. Before two people came together and tried to communicate (as Professor Rooney said in class), there was nothing to compare anything to; without the fundamental difference between “I” and “you”, there could not be the “positive differences” that typifies language. Benveniste explains how language is subjective and how “I” and “you” are the reason for that subjectivity. “Language is possible only because each speaker sets himself up as the a subject by referring to himself as I in his discourse” (p. 225). In class, we discussed a bit how other mediums and patterns (i.e. fashion, film, advertising, etc.) are also languages—not just figuratively, but literally. I think these languages, too, must be subjective, since they are a way for on person to communicate to another person or a larger group of people. When thinking about this, I find it confusing to think about some of Benveniste’s ideas, mostly her thoughts on the opposition between “you” and “I” and how it exclusively applies to language (I assume here, perhaps incorrectly, that she does not mean “language” in the same way we discussed in class, but she means as a spoken communicative device). “It is this polarity [between ‘I’ and ‘you’], moreover, very peculiar in itself, as it offers a type of opposition whose equivalent is encountered nowhere else outside of language” (p. 225). I think that this type of opposition and subjectivity is necessary to have any sort of language at all, but I wonder if the opposition between “I” and “you” appears in other languages—what would be the “I” of, say, film? What would be the ultimate opposition and subjectivity of fashion or any other language? Is there an equivalent, or is Benveniste right in saying that the opposition between “I” and “you” does not appear outside of spoken language?
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| jslee | I like Comic Books! | 0 | Feb 8 2007, 1:50 PM EST by jslee | ||
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Thread started: Feb 8 2007, 1:50 PM EST
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As soon as I got on this website I noticed the Magritte "The Treachery of Images" and immediately pulled out one of my readings for a different class: Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. His comic rendition begins the chapter by pointing out that the representation of the painting is not a pipe, nor is it even a painting of a pipe. In fact, it's not a drawing of a painting of a pipe, but one of ten printed copies of a painting on a pipe across the span of two pages. Scott's comic rendition goes on to explain the system of icons in comics, and how pictures will represent ideas, noises, people, objects, etc. He even goes on to include written language as icons that represent ideas within comics. Now, the relevance here is that Levi-Strauss talked about visuals and sound; and the thing comics does is combine visual art with language. What they don't do is factor music in: in fact it is almost impossible to factor music in short of writing sheet music, and then it's not actual music, but a representation of music on the page. Instead, sounds are visually represented, and these representations are merely that: pictures of sounds, not music. The fact that Scott points out that in a given panel the art or language can bring about the same representation of time and space progression, or that the two can accentuate the other I think reinforces Levi-Strauss's claim that visuals are reducable to speech, unlike music. I could narrate the opening of Craig Thompson's "Blankets" in words despite being an image: "two children lie in bed in a dark attic while a caption reads..." but I can't do that for a Bach Suite. So I just thought it was interesting that my reading on comic books would bleed into our first reading. That's all really.
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| kikeda | Value and Unity on the World Wide Web | 0 | Feb 8 2007, 11:43 AM EST by kikeda | ||
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Thread started: Feb 8 2007, 11:43 AM EST
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I was thinking the other day about how linking on the world wide web works very much like Saussure’s concept of value. The Google rank, or value, of a page is determined by how many other pages link to it as well as the value of each of the linking pages. Thus, if a page with many links to it, but with links from sites with very few links to them themselves, it might not be ranked as high as a page with more select number of links that come from sites which are heavily linked to. Just like the relationship among signs, the linking among webpages is constantly changing as pages are created and destroyed. The Google rank is never static and pages continue to rise and fall on the web.
Looking at the web in terms of Levi-Strauss’s idea of unity within the myth, which states, “[unity] is a phenomenon of the imagination, resulting from the attempt at interpretation; and its function is to endow the myth with synthetic form and to prevent its disintegration into a confusion of opposites” (5), unity within the web is also constructed in the imagination. Physically, the data behind all webpages is scattered across the globe on thousands of different servers. The semblance of unity that one gets from clicking back and forth between links only exists in virtual space. More than that, there is no one way to go through a website, no linear path, and that which we think of as a “home page” or “site entrance” may never be viewed if one can access the information one needs through a link. |
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