Sign in or 

People just like you can add or edit the content on this site. If you want to try editing, but aren't ready to add to this site, try our demo area.
Read more about editing pages at Wetpaint Central.
)
|
cynthialugo |
Latest page update: made by cynthialugo
, Jan 30 2007, 4:42 AM EST
(about this update
About This Update
No content added or deleted. - complete history) |
|
More Info: links to this page
|
| Started By | Thread Subject | Replies | Last Post | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| kfmcmanus | Freud, going against history? | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 4:41 PM EDT by kfmcmanus | ||
|
Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 4:41 PM EDT
Watch
I think Freud tends to be quite hypocritical when he depicts women. He states that psychoanalysis alone couldn't define a woman, but then describes how both men and women develop and come in being. He clearly believes there are many differences between men and women, but he argues that both sexes are first in love with their mother and women quickly grow out of that stage and begin to "love" their fathers. How do women go through that first stage of loving their mother's and on to loving their father's? I don't think his theory on how women are "biologically destined" to live in a feminine stage has enough evidence. Going along with that theory, I also don't agree with his theory on how women are born bisexual. Is he just going against "the Oedipus complex"?
|
|||||
| Anonymous | Irigary cont'd | 0 | Apr 6 2007, 3:48 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||
|
|
Thread started: Apr 6 2007, 3:48 AM EDT
Watch
..."virgin" does not describe a presence, but rather the term invokes futurity (the de-virgining; after all, this is what makes the virgin valuable) and is only meaningful in relation to non-virgins. Both the mother and the prostitute do not need the virgin to have had sex. The virgin needs the mother and the prostitute to have had sex in order for it to be "valuable" that she has NOT had sex.
The mother is defined by the presence of a child. But this term is still relatively negative, because of the "incest taboo" the mother-son relationship introduces. It is the way in which a mother is forbidden and cannot be used that bestows her value upon her. "Prostitute" is the only descriptive term of the three. It is the only term that names what is rather than what is not. A prostitute is a woman who exchanges sex for money. Even if the prostitute, like the mother and the virgin, does not have a right to her own pleasure (p. 187), she is the only woman who enters into an exchange with men. Though the conventional prostitute does not escape dependency on men, she enters into a contract in which she gets something in return for services rendered. The mother gets nothing in return. The virgin gets nothing (and, if/when she does, she can no longer be named "virgin"). I don't buy that the prostitute's body is "only valuable because it has already been used." The female prostitute's body is valuable because she is a physical, material, accessible woman, and any woman who takes money for sex is a prostitute (at least at that moment), there need be no history of usage. The term "prostitute" invokes an act rather than a (mythical) quality. The prostitute exists in the way the virgin does not. Okay, I think that's enough, I know I didn't really flesh out why i think the prostitute has more in common with both the mother and the virgin than the mother and the virgin have in common with each other--maybe y'all have some thoughts on that. --sarah |
||||
| Anonymous | Irigaray | 0 | Apr 6 2007, 3:17 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||
|
|
Thread started: Apr 6 2007, 3:17 AM EDT
Watch
"As commodities, women are thus two things at once: utilitarian objects and bearers of value. (p. 175)"
Breakdown: The object is the body. The utilitarian object is the body in relation to the way it is used by men. The exchange of women abstract her body. The physical material "woman" has no value by itself, only once the female body is put in relation to another female body can a woman be appraised. But how are two women to be compared? They are put in "a relation of equality with a third term that is neither the one nor the other. (p. 175)" "It is only her measurement against a third term that remains external to her, and that makes it possible to compare her with another woman, that permits her to have a relation to another commodity in terms of an equivalence that remains FOREIGN to both. (p. 176)." Okay, so women are not actually "bearers" of their own value. Their value is activated in the moment of transaction (gain, expenditure). Much like oil and calories, the value of a woman does not "lie within itself. (p. 176)." I am interested in Irigaray's discussion of the differences in exchange value between the mother, the virgin, and the prostitute (all "social roles imposed on women"--p. 186). I would like to explore these differences in greater depth. It seems to me that there are greater similarities both between the mother and the prostitue, and the virgin and the prostitute, than between the mother and the virgin. And it seems that the prostitute, although on the surface perhaps the most male-determined or man-made if you will, is actually the truest semblance of a woman. Do I think all women are whores? No, no, bear with me. The virgin is "pure exchange value. She is nothing but the possibility, the place, the sign of relations among men. In and of herself, she does not exsist...(p. 186)." The virgin is defined by what she has not done (or what has not been done to her), the term is completely negative, it does not describe |
||||