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| Anonymous | Lyotard | XII: Lyotard/Jameson et al. | 0 | Apr 27 2007, 4:17 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 27 2007, 4:17 AM EDT
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Speaking about the threat of "cultural policy" and the art and book market, Lyotard writes that "What is advised, sometimes through one channel, sometimes through the other, is to offer works which, first, are relative to subjects which exist in the eyes of the public they address, and second, works so made ("well made") that the public will recognize what they are about, will understand what is signified, will be able to give or refusal its approval knowingly, and if possible, even to derive from such work a certain amount of comfort" (Lyotard, 76). From this statement I gather that realist art, or any art that attempts to mimic real life is really not art at all in Lyotard's view, but simply commodity. Artists are advised to appeal to pre-negotiated cultural laws, and make references that are easily communicable. It is in this condition that artwork exists as something to be bought and sold at market. Its beauty, it would seem, is correlated to its trendiness. Real art, for Lyotard, then, must escape definition and referentiality. Its focus should be on the sublime. Does this mean that art should become a more private endeavor? I feel this is an especially important question in regard to making the "unpresentable" become "perceptible." Is Lyotard assuming that there are absolute concepts whose essences we have similar capabilities of imagining?
Also, Lyotard states that “our business is to invent allusions to the conceivable which cannot be presented.” Again, I am wondering if there are some universally discernable absolute concepts. Furthermore, I am concerned with whether Lyotard subordinates the private experience and self-expression which art makes possible to the communicative ability of art. -Daliso Leslie 4/26/07 |
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| mmcarval | Habermas, Part 2 | XII: Lyotard/Jameson et al. | 0 | Apr 25 2007, 5:52 PM EDT by mmcarval | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 25 2007, 5:52 PM EDT
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Lastly, Habermas brings up the avant-garde several times in his essay, saying that “the avant-garde understands itself as invading unknown territory, exposing itself to the dangers of sudden, of shocking encounters, conquering an as yet unoccupied future” and that it goes places “into which no one seems to have yet ventured” (4). Whether in painting, cinema, video production (more recently) or other types of art, avant-garde artists go against the norm and challenge the traditions of their respective art form. Does Habermas think that these avant-garde artists are bold or foolish for doing their own thing?
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| mmcarval | Habermas | XII: Lyotard/Jameson et al. | 0 | Apr 25 2007, 5:52 PM EDT by mmcarval | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 25 2007, 5:52 PM EDT
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Each of the theorists we have read for this week seems to have their own definition of what modernity is versus what postmodernity is, which I find to be very confusing. In his essay “Modernity versus Postmodernity”, Habermas uses the word “modernity” and multiple variations of it numerous times, but I did not really understand what his definition was. According to Habermas, what is modernity? Does he think modernism is a good thing, or does he prefer postmodernism? What is the difference between modernism and postmodernism?
Throughout the essay, there appear to be different types of modernity, such as classical, cultural, and aesthetic. Do all of these mean different things, or are they just different ways of saying the same thing? If they are different, does Habermas prefer one type of modernity over another? On page 6 of his essay, Habermas talks about Daniel Bell, who “argues that the crises of the developed societies of the West are to be traced back to a split between culture and society. Modernist culture has come to penetrate the values of everyday life; the life-world is infected by modernism.” What does Bell mean when he refers to the split between culture and society? Is he making a point about the lack of ethnic diversity in society or am I misreading that quote completely? Does Bell view modernist culture as a bad thing? Referring to modernity as an “infection” of society would suggest that he is against it, but I could not tell just from this quote. Reading this reminded me of a scene from the end of “The Matrix” when Agent Smith is talking to Morpheus (sorry, I could not resist). Agent Smith refers to the human race as a disease, as the cancer of the earth, and they (the agents) are the cure. Is this what Bell is trying to say about modernity? Is modernity the cancer of society? What is the cure? - Monica M. Carvalho |
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| Anonymous | Gina's Comment | XI. Spivak | 0 | Apr 19 2007, 11:08 PM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 19 2007, 11:08 PM EDT
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Reading Spivak and her account of sati made me think about Female Genital Mutation. What was interesting about Spivak’s work was that it did not (explicitely) focus on the moral implications of sati, but instead on the subject, while FGM is used as an example when trying to define a universal moral good. Thinking of the two different approaches to topics that the western intellectual traditionally finds morally wrong, raises questions. I realized that in my experience, while we have read works by African women, discussing FGM has always been done with hope of ‘representing’ (as in acting as a proxy for) what the women “really” want. This then lead me to think about how we discuss situations like the war in Iraq. Both sides attempt to say what the Iraqi’s “really want.” Spivak’s emphasis on how the subaltern cannot speak made me question my own assumptions when discussion moral situations for groups other than my own. It would also be interesting to hear Spivak’s opinion on if there is a moral universal good, or if the “western intellectuals” who discuss such matters can ever really know, since it is impossible for all groups to be represented.
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| Anonymous | Eli's comment | XI. Spivak | 0 | Apr 19 2007, 8:18 PM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 19 2007, 8:18 PM EDT
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So, as coincidence has it, we talked about this philosopher named Levinas in one of my other classes today, and he had some pretty interesting ideas about "the other" that I will try to apply to Spivak's theories (though it was really difficult to understand either text). Levinas, I think, would criticize Spivak for being so married to an ideology of subjecthood, of the other as a type of subject. Levinas seems to criticize the narcissism of extrapolating one's own subjecthood to the other--of allowing internal life to dominate the external world. He questions the subject that only arises out of discourse, and instead proposes a sort of mutual "being for each other." He redefines the other as a sort of mysterious, unreachable being, a third party to the I/You of discourse. It seems that Spivak is too willing to apply the notions of "speech" and "subjectivity" to the other, and that she doesn't recognize the inability of the theorist to understanding or capture that other. Levinas is deeply distrustful of conceptualizing the external; rather than theorizing a conceptual understanding between subjects, he posits a sort "face-to-face" interraction with an actual person. In this interraction, each person is, in a way, buoyed toward a transcendent state by a language that pre-exists selfhood, that exceeds the totality of understanding. In this sense, language is not a violent tool for carving subjectivity, but a common plane upon which all personal interraction is grounded. While an internal world still exists, it is overwhelmed by the irreducibility of a "third party" exceeds any sort of narcissistic, subjective understanding. I think Spivak could have been more aware of the problems of subjecivity (especially of the other) rather than attacking at a chiefly political and ideological angle. Spivak might argue that the other is precisely at a disadvantage because of the imperialism of subjectivity, but she certainly upholds the primacy of the subject.
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| jslee | Panoptic othering | X. Foucault | 1 | Apr 14 2007, 4:06 PM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 7:20 PM EDT
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One comment that struck out to me in the reading of "Discipline and Punish" was the line on page 200, midway through the last paragraph:
"He is seen, but he does not see; he is the object of information, never a subject in communication" This idea of objectification resonates especially with last week's discussion of race and sexuality, along with the 2nd Foucault reading and Rooney's lecture about the power dynamics of confession. I want to discuss in what ways is the "multiplicity that can be numbered and supervised" (201) offered by the Panopticon similar to the "othering" of race and gender Irigary and Fanon discuss? I also want to discuss how panopticism ties into the confessional act in that the priest/listener is granted information on the confessor, mimicing the 1 way informational flow of the panopticon itself.
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| kfmcmanus | Freud, going against history? | VIIII. Freud II/Irigaray | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 4:41 PM EDT by kfmcmanus | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 4:41 PM EDT
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I think Freud tends to be quite hypocritical when he depicts women. He states that psychoanalysis alone couldn't define a woman, but then describes how both men and women develop and come in being. He clearly believes there are many differences between men and women, but he argues that both sexes are first in love with their mother and women quickly grow out of that stage and begin to "love" their fathers. How do women go through that first stage of loving their mother's and on to loving their father's? I don't think his theory on how women are "biologically destined" to live in a feminine stage has enough evidence. Going along with that theory, I also don't agree with his theory on how women are born bisexual. Is he just going against "the Oedipus complex"?
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| kfmcmanus | Lacan and Freud | VI: Freud I/Lacan | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 4:31 PM EDT by kfmcmanus | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 4:31 PM EDT
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I am still interested in how Lacan's theory of the "mirror stage" correlates with Freud's theories on child identification. Lacan argues that a child's first identification comes from the "mirror stage", in which an ego can then be established. Would Freud agree with this? Lacan further describes the ego and how it becomes dependent upon external objects. But I am confused as to how a child then develops their personality and specific characteristics. Lacan believes that the subject's personality depends on social experiences which shape how they view and feel about certain images and objects. Lacan developed Freud's work on the "I" and how it progresses within a child but how much of his own thoughts did he derive on his own? How would Freud analyze the mirror stage and does it fit in with his other theories of psychoanalysis?
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| RPeckham | Spectacle and Punishment | X. Foucault | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 3:03 PM EDT by RPeckham | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 3:03 PM EDT
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Foucault opens "Discipline and Punish" with a graphic discussion of the execution and desecration of a regicide, and then explains how that model has shifted over the past three centuries to emphasize a medico-juridical disciplinarity acting on the soul of the criminal. In the chapter "Panopticism", he extrapolates this former model of punishment to characterize "antiquity" as a "civilization of spectacle" in which the many could inspect the few. In the modern age, he claims the great problem of surveillance is giving access to a multitude to the few/the individual. Other theorists have described modern Western civilization as the "society of the spectacle", notably Debord and Baudrillard. Is there a way to reconcile the tensions between these theorists? Could discipline in the modern age perhaps be characterized as spectacle insofar as everyone can watch everyone else, thus allowing access to an infinite amount of vision to each individual?
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| giannag | that was me (gianna) | X. Foucault | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 4:01 AM EDT by giannag | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 4:01 AM EDT
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in the comment below.
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| Anonymous | Panopticon Here and Now | X. Foucault | 0 | Apr 12 2007, 4:00 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 12 2007, 4:00 AM EDT
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Cameras and microphones are prevalent in today's world. There's hardly a place on earth that has been untouched by surveillance cameras, microphones, reality TV shows, etc. Especially with reality TV shows and implicitly with cameras and microphones, these devices require an audience. Everywhere we go nowadays, we are used to the idea of having an audience. With all of this "naturalization" of surveillance, can we still care if we are being watched or heard? That is, if we understand that we can be watched or heard almost every minute of every day, can we still worry and think about this surveillence at every point time? Or do we eventually become immune to its effects?
This makes me think about what a Panopticon would be like in today's world. I don't know too much about prisons, but I feel they are not places of self-discipline and self-seclusion, but of violence and groups of inmates. Is this an effect of a Panopticon in today's world? Or do prisons now not bother with watching and listening to their inmates because it won't work in the intended way anymore? Perhaps the Panopticon model is useless in today's world when applied to prisons, but still true in other models. I am still trying to think of a place where a Panopticon would be useful (perhaps hospitals...? but even with that there are problems), though. Furthermore, it seems as if "inmates" would also grow accustomed to a Panopticon setup even in Foucault's times if an "inmate" spent a long enough time in a Panopticon. With the older discipline and punishment system, new punishments could be thought of when the old ones were of no use. With the Panopticon, what happens when the "inmate" becomes used to being watched? Perhaps the watcher starts listening to every "inmate", too, but what then? It is difficult to think of answers to these questions because it requires an extrapolation of the Panopticon into the world today and further knowledge of older working Panopticons. |
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| Anonymous | Irigary cont'd | VIIII. Freud II/Irigaray | 0 | Apr 6 2007, 3:48 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 6 2007, 3:48 AM EDT
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..."virgin" does not describe a presence, but rather the term invokes futurity (the de-virgining; after all, this is what makes the virgin valuable) and is only meaningful in relation to non-virgins. Both the mother and the prostitute do not need the virgin to have had sex. The virgin needs the mother and the prostitute to have had sex in order for it to be "valuable" that she has NOT had sex.
The mother is defined by the presence of a child. But this term is still relatively negative, because of the "incest taboo" the mother-son relationship introduces. It is the way in which a mother is forbidden and cannot be used that bestows her value upon her. "Prostitute" is the only descriptive term of the three. It is the only term that names what is rather than what is not. A prostitute is a woman who exchanges sex for money. Even if the prostitute, like the mother and the virgin, does not have a right to her own pleasure (p. 187), she is the only woman who enters into an exchange with men. Though the conventional prostitute does not escape dependency on men, she enters into a contract in which she gets something in return for services rendered. The mother gets nothing in return. The virgin gets nothing (and, if/when she does, she can no longer be named "virgin"). I don't buy that the prostitute's body is "only valuable because it has already been used." The female prostitute's body is valuable because she is a physical, material, accessible woman, and any woman who takes money for sex is a prostitute (at least at that moment), there need be no history of usage. The term "prostitute" invokes an act rather than a (mythical) quality. The prostitute exists in the way the virgin does not. Okay, I think that's enough, I know I didn't really flesh out why i think the prostitute has more in common with both the mother and the virgin than the mother and the virgin have in common with each other--maybe y'all have some thoughts on that. --sarah |
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| Anonymous | Irigaray | VIIII. Freud II/Irigaray | 0 | Apr 6 2007, 3:17 AM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 6 2007, 3:17 AM EDT
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"As commodities, women are thus two things at once: utilitarian objects and bearers of value. (p. 175)"
Breakdown: The object is the body. The utilitarian object is the body in relation to the way it is used by men. The exchange of women abstract her body. The physical material "woman" has no value by itself, only once the female body is put in relation to another female body can a woman be appraised. But how are two women to be compared? They are put in "a relation of equality with a third term that is neither the one nor the other. (p. 175)" "It is only her measurement against a third term that remains external to her, and that makes it possible to compare her with another woman, that permits her to have a relation to another commodity in terms of an equivalence that remains FOREIGN to both. (p. 176)." Okay, so women are not actually "bearers" of their own value. Their value is activated in the moment of transaction (gain, expenditure). Much like oil and calories, the value of a woman does not "lie within itself. (p. 176)." I am interested in Irigaray's discussion of the differences in exchange value between the mother, the virgin, and the prostitute (all "social roles imposed on women"--p. 186). I would like to explore these differences in greater depth. It seems to me that there are greater similarities both between the mother and the prostitue, and the virgin and the prostitute, than between the mother and the virgin. And it seems that the prostitute, although on the surface perhaps the most male-determined or man-made if you will, is actually the truest semblance of a woman. Do I think all women are whores? No, no, bear with me. The virgin is "pure exchange value. She is nothing but the possibility, the place, the sign of relations among men. In and of herself, she does not exsist...(p. 186)." The virgin is defined by what she has not done (or what has not been done to her), the term is completely negative, it does not describe |
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| Anonymous | Freud | VIIII. Freud II/Irigaray | 1 | Apr 5 2007, 11:50 PM EDT by Anonymous | ||||
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Thread started: Apr 5 2007, 11:45 PM EDT
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The main question I have is not "Does anyone believe this stuff?" because I think even Freud's rather outlandish analysis can teach us something about human sexuality, but instead "Didn't even Freud think his analysis was a bit simplistic?" I've always been bothered by his tendency to overgeneralize but was most bothered by his rather quick treatment of the issue of "sex" or perhaps gender, which remains largely unanswered to this day, even within the Brown community. While I believe that societal expectations/constraints have much to do with the continuing active/passive divide between the sexes, I fail to see how the psychodynamic model he suggests can help explain the development of children. First is the issue of the rather exalted position he assigns to the penis and what the lack thereof means for girls. While I am not a woman and thus cannot speak of the Elektra complex or penis envy, I can certainly say I never experienced anything like the Oedipal complex or castration anxiety.
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| mmcarval | Kristeva Reading Part 2 | VIII: Kristeva II/Fanon | 0 | Mar 20 2007, 11:13 AM EDT by mmcarval | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 20 2007, 11:13 AM EDT
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Going along with poetic language, is “thetic language” (being opposed to poetic language, according to Professor Doane’s lecture) language that does propose a critical thesis or opinion? Would Kristeva’s “From One Identity to an Other”, along with the other essays we have read for this class, count as “thetic language” since each essay proposes a thesis of some sort?
On page 125, Kristeva introduces the term “crisis” and mentions “crises of meaning, subject, and structure.” What does she mean by “crisis”? Is a crisis, for Kristeva, anything which challenges one’s already existing belief system (such as a crisis of faith)? What does Kristeva mean on page 129 when she talks about the “noesis” and “noemis” (in relation to the sign and the signified)? What do these two terms mean? On page 142, Kristeva introduces the “obscene word”. Does this refer to any curse word, or is something more complicated than that? Professor Doane said that the obscene word is a semiotic moment. Can we go over what exactly this means? Lastly, I had a hard time discerning Kristeva’s thesis in this essay. I think that her main thesis is introduced on page 125 when she says, “I shall therefore and in conclusion argue in favor of an analytical theory of signifying systems and practices that would search within the signifying phenomenon for the crisis or the unsettling process of meaning and subject rather than for the coherence or identity of either one or a multiplicity of structures.” What does this mean? - Monica M. Carvalho |
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| mmcarval | Kristeva Reading Part 1 | VIII: Kristeva II/Fanon | 0 | Mar 20 2007, 11:12 AM EDT by mmcarval | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 20 2007, 11:12 AM EDT
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Reading Kristeva’s essay, I had a difficult time with some of the vocabulary she used, particularly poetic and thetic language. When Kristeva says “poetic language,” is she referring only to poetry, or is “poetic language” simply language that is not proposing a thesis of some sort? Does poetic language include all of literature, only fictional writing, or something else entirely? On page 133, Kristeva writes that “heterogeneousness…produces in poetic language ‘musical’ but also nonsense effects that destroy not only accepted beliefs and significations, but, in radical experiments, syntax itself.” Reading this, I figured that “poetic language” referred only to poetry since it is the most free-form style of writing and does not require correct grammar, spelling, or sentence structure. In this way, poetry would embody the idea of the “destruction of syntax.” However, I did not understand how poetry would also destroy “accepted beliefs and significations,” which makes me think that “poetic language” must refer to something else besides poetry. Moreover, I did not quite understand what Kristeva meant by “beliefs” – beliefs about what? Is she referring to the many ideological beliefs we all hold? She also says on page 137 that “poetic language is linked with ‘evil’”. What does she mean by this? She says that poetic language is evil because it “utters incest” but also that it is the “social body’s self defense against the discourse of incest (italics mine)”. Which is it? Does poetic language encourage incest or does it protect the social body from it? How is incest even related to poetic language in the context of this essay?
- Monica Carvalho |
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| Eli.the.Halpern | history pt. II | VII: Marx/Althusser | 0 | Mar 15 2007, 8:16 PM EDT by Eli.the.Halpern | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 15 2007, 8:16 PM EDT
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Thus, I would criticize Marx and Althusser for failing to take into account their own negation of history, their engulfing of it, in their structural analyses. On the other hand, I would also be wary of works like "From Work to Text" that see, in essence, the whole world as their infinitely discursive oyster. Can one really ignore the time in which Hamlet was written and instead opt to read the play as a text written, in essence, by their reading of it? Doesn't that practice run the risk of mythologizing The Text? Find out on the next episode of: "Space Invaders." |
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| Eli.the.Halpern | history | VII: Marx/Althusser | 0 | Mar 15 2007, 8:16 PM EDT by Eli.the.Halpern | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 15 2007, 8:16 PM EDT
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Sorry, this has to be in two parts sine it's too long.
One thread that I have been trying to follow throughout all of these readings has been the role of history in each philosophy. The notion of history seems to be a very divisive one among philosopher's whose frameworks might otherwise fit well with one another. For writers like Barthes and Marx, the myth and the commodity are sapped of history. They appear eternal and original. For Althusser, "ideology has no history" (159); it is "omnipresent, trans-historical . . . eternal. (161)" In this sense, one might be able to describe commodity or ideology in terms of myth, or figure myth and commodity into the structure of ideology. While Barthes, Marx, and Althusser tend present the loss of history in a negative light, other philosophers saw a need to negate the notion of historicity. In his later writing, Barthes emphasizes of the trans-historical nature text; he wants to eliminate the notion of author and origin, to allow the structure of text to breathe to life in the moment of its reading. There is also a strong tradition of synchronicity among philosophers like Saussure, who believe that structures like language come about all at once and in relation to each other (paradigmatically). In his "Structure, Sign, and Play," Derrida outright states: "the respect for structurality, for the eternal originality of the structure, compels a neutralization of time and history. (263)" In order to examine a structure, whether it be that if ideology or commodity, one must "brush aside all facts" at the last second in order to truly grasp its structurality. |
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| GinaS | Althusser & The Matrix (yeah... I know) | VII: Marx/Althusser | 0 | Mar 14 2007, 10:43 PM EDT by GinaS | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 14 2007, 10:43 PM EDT
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When I told a friend I was reading Althusser, his response was “oh, I’ve never read his work, but I’ve seen The Matrix.” While referring to The Matrix in a discussion about theory has gotten cliché, I’ve never thought about it from the perspective of ISAs. Thinking of ‘The Matrix’ as the ultimate ideology, a metaphor for ISAs, made the concepts more digestible. Humans function in ‘The Matrix’ just as unconsciously as we function within our individual ideologies; it seems “obvious” (or natural) as one does not question it. It also carries over to how if you claim that you don’t subscribe to a specific ideology, it is the most dangerous as you are not aware of it. It also produces a subject (in both forms of the term), and even is necessary for the reproduction of the means of production. It is also not an imaginary relation between man and his real conditions, but more the relation of the relation. The place where this becomes interesting is the internal/external idea of being “in an ideology” (pg 175) How similarly to the myth, you can’t function within in it if you know that it exists. While Neo explicitly got to choose whether or not he wanted to be aware of the ideology he was function within, I wonder how much Althusser feels we can ‘free’ ourselves from our ideologies once we acknowledge their existence? Also, is there a certain “ignorance is bliss” quality as well? The pleasures of firmly believing in something and not having to question its appearance as ‘obvious? ‘The Matrix’ example also brings into the forefront of how many other ‘obvious’ things in our lives may actually be an ‘apparatus’ of some sort.
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| kikeda | Signification of "I" and the "other"/"you" | VI: Freud I/Lacan | 0 | Mar 8 2007, 11:01 PM EST by kikeda | ||||
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Thread started: Mar 8 2007, 11:01 PM EST
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Does the realization of a child’s “I” in the mirror also correspond to a realization of an external environment that is not part of the “I” (i.e. the "you")? Since Benveniste’s “I” and “you” come into existence together (and there is no “I” without a “you”), I am wondering if a similar phenomenon occurs in the mirror stage itself. If so, does the “Ideal I” in the mirror act as a visual signifier of the self since the child does not have access to language at this point? And what would be the signifier of the other, or "you" then?
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